Rock Talk
Rock Talk is the official podcast of Rockhurst High School in Kansas City, Missouri — where we explore the voices, values, and vibrant life of our Jesuit, college-prep community. Hosted by the Admissions and Marketing team, each episode features conversations with students, faculty, alumni, and special guests as we share stories of academic excellence, faith formation, brotherhood, and service. Whether you're a prospective family, a proud alumnus, or simply curious about what makes Rockhurst unique — this is your inside look at life at The Rock.
Rock Talk
The Spiritual Foundation of Brotherhood
What makes a truly good leader in today's world? Is it enough to be powerful, or must power be guided by something greater? In this profound conversation with Father Stephen Kramer, Rockhurst High School's new principal, we explore the heart of Jesuit education and its focus on forming "men for others."
Father Kramer brings a unique perspective shaped by his experiences teaching at multiple Jesuit institutions across the country—from St. Louis to Denver, New Orleans, and even Kenya. His journey of 20 years as a Jesuit reveals the consistent spirit animating Jesuit schools despite their differences: a dedication to recognizing each person's inherent dignity as God's beloved child.
The conversation delves into St. Ignatius's personal transformation from a glory-seeking soldier to a man who discovered his true identity and purpose. Through this lens, Father Kramer articulates how Rockhurst helps young men understand who they truly are beyond achievements, appearances, or abilities. "You are already God's beloved child," he emphasizes, regardless of performance or circumstance—a realization that liberates students from seeking validation through external measures.
Perhaps most compelling is Father Kramer's distinction between creating merely powerful men versus good powerful men. While Jesuit schools excel at developing students with persuasive skills and critical thinking, their true mission is ensuring this power serves others. "There's nothing worse than a powerful bad person," he notes, highlighting the school's responsibility to form ethical leaders.
Through practices like the daily Examen prayer and personal birthday blessings, Father Kramer demonstrates his commitment to helping students recognize God's presence in their everyday experiences. His ultimate goal? Forming young men who find meaning that makes life's difficulties worthwhile—men who, when they look in the mirror years later, respect the person they've become.
Listen now to discover how Rockhurst's approach to brotherhood and spiritual formation creates graduates prepared not just for success, but for lives of purpose, service, and authentic human connection.
Welcome to Rock Talk, the official podcast of Rockhurst High School in Kansas City, missouri, where we explore the voices, values and vibrant life of our Jesuit college prep community, hosted by the admissions and marketing team. Each episode features conversations with students, faculty alumni and special guests, as we share stories of academic excellence, faith formation, brotherhood and service. Whether you're a prospective family, a proud alumnus or simply curious about what makes Rockhurst unique, this is your inside look at Life at the Rock. Welcome back from a long weekend, steve. We are excited to be recording the last in our first series of four podcasts for this opening season around the theme of brotherhood, and today we have a new face on campus that we're super excited to join us. Today we have Father Kramer with us in the studio. Father Kramer, if you don't mind, do you mind introducing yourself and telling us a little bit more about who you are and kind of what you want to see for the school year?
Speaker 2:Sure. Well, thank you both for having me on the podcast. I'm excited to be here. This is a great new thing that you're starting. A little bit about myself. So, father Stephen Kramer, I'm a St Louis originally and I went to St Louis University High School, but over the years I've taught at DeSmet High School. I've taught at Reed's High School in Denver. I've worked at St Louis University High School in St Louis. I've worked at Jesuit High School in New Orleans and I've spent some little experiments of time working in different schools Boston College, high School and other ones so I've seen Jesuit education in the high school area in many, many different places and in many different ways of how it unfolds. I've been a Jesuit for 20 years now which still makes me one of the new guys right.
Speaker 2:So this summer I was in Kenya for six or seven months and it was the last piece of training. So I've been a Jesuit for 20 years and I was still in training up until that. So now I'm considered fully formed. I'm out of training after 20 years, but that makes me brand spanking new.
Speaker 2:So either way, I come here to Kansas City to take on the principal job here and I'm very excited to one not only witness another Jesuit high school to see what different, wonderful and neat ways this is the unfolding plan of Ignatian education, of Jesuit spirituality, of God's work in the world. Because our high schools truly are phenomenal. Wherever you go they're all just a little bit different but you feel the same spirit, you know, kind of animating all of them, even though they're all quite different, maybe topically. And so it's exciting to come to a new place and to learn and see what's going on. And I'm excited to bring some of that knowledge and some of the experience I've had at all these other different institutions and and help kind of pull out and point at the best practices that, uh, that I've seen and and and work together with the people here. Everyone's been so kind and warm.
Speaker 2:I've been in new Orleans for 10 years, kenya for the last six, seven months, and I'm I'm a St Louisan, so I'm very happy to be back in the Midwest. Okay, and one thing people keep asking me is like how are you finding it here in the Midwest? And I have to say this having left Kenya, I haven't seen a boiled goat in about two months and I'm very excited about that fact.
Speaker 1:Slightly different barbecue flavor there, I'm sure.
Speaker 3:That's right, that's right. So, father, I had an impromptu question because it's interesting to hear more of where you've been. I mean me and you started at the same time. You were a little bit ahead of me, but I wasn't aware that you had been to all of those different Jesuit schools. What are the similarities that you know, if you can, in this little bit of time you've been here? What are some of the common similarities you see across the Jesuit schools that you've been to?
Speaker 2:compared to Rockhurst, Sure, one of the great things it's kind of an easy one is, very topically, this phrase that we'll use here men for others. The Jesuit schools, no matter where you are here, men for others, the Jesuit schools, no matter where you are, are particularly good at forming men and women. So we have some co-ed schools that dedicate themselves to recognize the importance of living community in the world, of not living selfishly for yourself. So the people who go on from our schools to then end up working and starting and working in NGOs, who believe that meaning in life is found in relationship, Right, and that's something that you can see commonly through all of them all, this dedication towards excellence, right, it doesn't matter what we do, we do everything for not just the glory of God, for the greater glory of God.
Speaker 2:We don't just choose to do the good thing, we choose to do the best thing we can. When we write a paper, we don't just get it done, we try to do it in such a way that it turns us into the best version of ourselves, and then we're putting something out that we truly believe was. This was done to maximize the glory of God on earth. And, as a famous saying in Christianity, god's glory is man fully alive. So when we human beings are fully flourishing with what God created us to be, that's when God is most glorified. And so I think you can feel this sense of that running throughout all of our schools, no matter how different they are topically on the front of whether they're wearing uniforms or not, how their haircuts are done. What are the class? What's the class load? What's the academic, you know point of the school, whether it's more trade oriented or whether it's college prep or otherwise, okay, cool, cool, cool.
Speaker 3:Our theme for the first series, or the first four episodes, centers around brotherhood and welcome. What does brotherhood mean to you in the context of Rockhurst High School?
Speaker 2:Okay, sure, well, I mean, I feel like that last question was a good segue, this idea of being a man and woman for others, Ignatian spirituality. So if you want to think about St Ignatius, he was a kid and a young man who was utterly dedicated to his own glory. He wanted to become a soldier and win fame. He wanted people to like him. He wanted the princess of the kingdom to fall in love with him because he was the best soldier around. You know, to put it in today's parlance, for the young men we have here because we don't live in a kingdom, right, it's our teenage boys are obsessed with wearing gold chains and $500 pair of sneakers. They want people to notice them and think they're good and they're successful and that they're strong and they'll win the girl because of this. It's the classic kind of the male fantasy of achieving so well that you're admired by all and then you win the princess. Ignatius is that kid, he's that young man and he's doing it to the degree that it's just from the outside. You would look at him. This is not a good guy. He's utterly self-centered and he has this conversion experience and he starts to realize, he starts asking this question. He's like why am I living for a glory that's going to fade? Like, if I become this famous soldier, how long are people going to remember me? Right, 30 years, maybe you know. So, like if you unless you're literally Michael Jordan, right, most of the famous ballplayers you know, kind of after 30, 40 years, start to fade out of memory, like in Babe Ruth's era. There's only a very few number of good athletes in the Major League Baseball whose names we still remember A very, very vanishing few. So he's sitting there thinking well, if I become a soldier, I'll only be remembered for what? 20, 30 years. But St Francis people have been talking about St Francis for 300 years now by the time he came around. And he's like Dominic. He's like if you serve a different king God, for example that fame goes much, much longer and he starts to. So he starts hey, I should aim for being a soldier in God's army, right? So this is what he's thinking, but it's still all about himself.
Speaker 2:And he sits there and thinking like to be a soldier in God's army, I need to become a saint, so I have to get rid of all my sins. And he's sitting there contemplating his life, his childhood, which was a mess, all of the things that he did to try to become the soldier right, and the failure. On the battlefield he gets hit in the leg with a cannonball. That forces him to reconsider his life and that's where he has his conversion, you know, kind of recovering from that. As he's doing that and he's thinking about all these moments of his life, the good ones, the bad ones, right the moment that he decided to convert, the moment that he gave up his arms and he put his sword on an altar in front of a statue of Mary and says I'm dedicating my life to God.
Speaker 2:As he's thinking about all these, he starts to realize, in the good ones and the bad ones, god was there the entire time and like leading him, even through his mistakes, god was here. God was here guiding me. Even then, god was here. When I got hit by the cannonball, god was guiding me. When I, you know, when I gave up my sword to Mary, god was guiding me.
Speaker 2:And he starts to realize wait a minute, god's been with me this whole time and it dawns on him who he is. He realizes I'm God's beloved child, like I'm a child of God. God loves me and the thing is. Here's the key the moment you realize who you are. The second it dawns on you, really dawns on you. Wait a minute, I'm God's beloved child. The next move is this wait a minute. And so is he, and so is she, and so are all the other people. They're brothers and sisters. And in fact it's so life-changing, this recognition of who you really are, that you don't have to prove yourself, you don't have to wear that gold chain or the 500 tennis shoes to be considered important or good or glorious, or you just have to realize you're god's beloved child.
Speaker 2:And then almost all of the suffering, the pain of this world gets recontextualized and becomes worthwhile. And and Ignatius wakes up, he sees this and he realized wait a minute. And none of the people in this world know that Everyone's suffering, thinking they have to be good in and of themselves, what they can't do right, and they're suffering because of this. And he's now on a mission to help everyone else in the world, right, realize who they are, right, to tell them you know, to show them like don't you realize? Not only are you my brother, you're God's beloved child. Right, and this changes everything for them.
Speaker 2:And so, built into the heart of Ignatian spirituality is this idea of brotherhood right? And it starts with knowing who you are, realizing you're God's beloved child, right and so for our students to help the school, to bring them in here and help them really realize in their bones not just intellectually like who are you, you're God's beloved child, and when that happens it changes everything. And then suddenly they start looking out and going wait a minute, and so are they, and they don't know it and that's a tragedy and it becomes about brotherhood. Right, that? That's the foundation of it. That little move right there of knowing who you are, to turn around and dedicate yourself to becoming a man for others. That's what the brotherhood is based on. I love that. I love it.
Speaker 1:I was going to say.
Speaker 1:One of the things that since I've been here, I've really kind of come to appreciate about Ignatius is, I think he has a great formational story for young men, especially young men that are in such an important developmental phase of, like you said, figuring out who they are.
Speaker 1:And he really, you know, shows that you can make a lot of errors on that road and still kind of come back to what is central and what is important. The other thing that I think I always like to kind of note with the young men at the school is that one of the things Ignatius did was also bring kind of his pals, his buddies with him, you know, and showed them the way. And I think that when I think of brotherhood in the context of Rockers High School, what I see is boys surrounding themselves with people that make them better and encourage them to be better. And so, as a principal of a school like Rockers, what are your hopes and desires for those young men that are maybe not quite on that path to finding that welcome, finding that brotherhood, yet what are your hopes for them as they move forward? What are your suggestions to help them to maybe acclimate into our community and join more fully in our mission.
Speaker 2:Okay, so our incoming freshmen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, incoming freshmen yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:Sure, no. Thanks for that question. Well, one of the great things that I mean you can say teaching people to know who they really are is one piece of it. But or is an idea at least you know how does that get instantiated. How do you actually make that real? Is an idea. At least you know how does that get instantiated. How do you actually make that real?
Speaker 2:One of the great things is is to have each person to realize that they're seen. You know, like ignatius has this moment, because this moment of recognizing he's god's beloved son, because he he's looking at his life and purposely looking back on it and pointing at all these moments, he's like, okay, here's that moment when I got hit by the cannonball and thinking about it, maybe praying about it for a second. But wait a minute. God was there and he cause get, that moment's what led me here, right, and he's thinking about this terrible moment in his childhood. It's like, well, you know what that moment led me here, right, and all of these good moments, bad moments, all led me here to this place of encounter with God, right? So one of the ways that we do this whole thing of helping the young men who come into this building to recognize who they are is start leading them into looking at their own life and pointing out that God has been there the whole time.
Speaker 2:So Christianity is the only religion on the face of the earth that says this about god. We don't say that god is good and christians don't say god is loving. Right now, people might be kind of confused to hear me say that I'm a priest and so god is neither good nor is god loving. Right, because the christian says god is not loving. God's not a thing or a person that loves. God is love itself. Right. God is not a thing that is good. God is goodness itself.
Speaker 2:And so the truth is, if you've ever experienced love in any form, that was God you experienced. You know, and to put a name on it, to actually go back into your life and say, okay, when is the first time I experienced love, or the most recent time or the greatest time? And you look at it and you go, you know what that was God loving me through my mother or my father, or my best friend in that moment, or the guy who picked me up on the street, you know, when I was down and out. I just say every experience of goodness and love that was God and to name it.
Speaker 2:And then when you start naming it just like Ignatius, you start looking at your life like wait a minute, it was there and there and there. And it starts to move that knowledge that you're God's beloved child, that you've been taught since third grade right down into your bones and you actually begin to feel it. I think also it helps to, and I'm pretty dedicated to this. I don't know if people know this, but I'm running around the school every day trying to find all the people whose birthday it is right, I'm breaking into the classroom at the expense of some teacher's sanity.
Speaker 2:I'm breaking into the classroom and saying, hey, I'm commandeering the class for a moment and I find the birthday kid.
Speaker 2:I tell him to stand up and I give this kind of over the top blessing, a birthday blessing for him, and I shake his hand.
Speaker 2:I look him in the eyes and I say you right, I see you, and it has nothing to do with your performance in this world, it has nothing to do with how good or bad you are.
Speaker 2:It is solely because you are, because you exist, because you're here, right, because you're one of us, you're one of the brothers, and I think, the recognition for just their existence, you know, and that we're happy to be here and the school and I see you, right, and I, when you're wearing a collar, it's very easy for that person to then connect that to God, right, you know so. And trying to make that a little bit more overt, so trying to do these practical things to bring these young men in, and I think the advice I'd give to the young guys is to is to indeed do this, to look at your life and think to yourself okay, wait, you know, good, every time I've experienced good, that was God right, and where have I seen good, you know and? And where I've seen no good or where I've experienced bad things, I've only experienced that because there wasn't enough God being brought in, and we're the ones who are supposed to bring the love, the good, to the situation right, and we can, and that transforms this world.
Speaker 3:So I have a and that's very well put and I appreciate that and I wanted to ask you about this, and this is something that you've said a couple of different times that I know means a lot to you, and it was actually very impactful for me when you said it in a way of like, what's the what, what am I, what is the word I'm looking for, like this aha moment of the importance of not just building powerful men, but good and powerful men. You spoke about Fidel Castro, I believe, getting a Jesuit education and some of Adolf Hitler's generals coming up in the ranks of Jesuit education, and and I was struck by that because it forced me to look at my life in those moments where I did not use my influence or power that I had in my own right in the correct ways. And I would love to hear your thought or take on the critical importance of it's one thing to be successful, it's one thing to be just a powerful man.
Speaker 3:We crank those out you know, which is a blessing here at Rockhurst formation being so pivotal in helping these young men be who God intended them to be, to be, as you said, known and seen and as his beloved. What is the I don't want to say secret sauce, but like just talk about the importance of that for a young man to not just be a good, powerful you know, go ahead, Well it sounds like in part you've really you've done a great job yourself answering the question in the question there.
Speaker 2:I think you seem to have a pretty good grasp of it. No, I mean I say that Jesuit high schools traditionally throughout history here Rockhurst we're very good at producing powerful people. We teach people how to argue, how to think, the skills of rhetoric, how to present their thoughts. Somebody who can present their thoughts and be persuasive is a powerful person. You get other people to do and think what you're thinking. That's one of the best definitions of power. It's not force, oppressive force, power. That is actually the least lasting of all power. That person is almost always overthrown by the next person coming into use for it. But getting people to agree or to see not your way, but the truth is hopefully what you're pointing to. But we teach people the skills of rhetoric, how to present themselves, how to dress, how to talk to somebody, the niceties of polite world and business world. We teach them how to think. You know the importance of logic and we give them the information in our AP classes.
Speaker 2:The Jesuit schools are really good at this and they have been traditionally, and one of the reasons why and I think this is where it is. The Jesuit teachers, the Jesuit institutions, the priests who have traditionally run the schools, the jesuits themselves, right, are dedicated to god first. Right, and god's greater glory, which I kind of surfaced a little bit earlier, right. And so this dedication to not just being alive but being fully alive for god. And when you're, when you're dedicated to god, right, and your eyes are clearly set on on god, you're, you're dedicated to God, right, and your eyes are clearly set on God, you're willing to just pour yourself out for this endeavor. Right, if you take your eyes off of God and you move them down, right, not looking at God but looking at the excellence itself, right, we as a school could dedicate ourselves to AP scores. We could dedicate ourselves to the what kind of colleges our boys are getting into? Right. But the second, we take our eyes off God and we go down there into this land, right, we might still be good at getting high AP because we're going to pull all the stops just to get that. But now the reason why we're doing it right Can get forgotten. Right, you can start to lose a little bit. Why am I trying to get good AP scores? Because if we take our eyes off God. Then suddenly, now we're communicating, even if we're not saying it out loud. We're communicating by where we're putting our focus and our desire and all of our work and efforts, that we really actually only care about the test scores and the job, and you might as well say, if you become that, then you might as well say, yes, the gold chain on your neck and the $500 tennis shoes are the goal. Right, and that's a problem, right, because people who believe that way, we've made them powerful. We've got all the skills of rhetoric and the APU. We've made them powerful.
Speaker 2:But if we haven't turned them into good men, those people who only care about their own glory, as Ignatius did in his youth, are not pleasant people to be around, and if we make them powerful, they can be powerfully bad. There's nothing worse in this world, right, than a powerful bad person, right, but a powerful good person, right. If you had an evil king, the entire country suffers. It's terrible, it's the worst thing possible. It's a tyrant, you know. But if you have a benevolent king, perhaps the best government in the world is a benevolent king. I mean, aristotle would say this, and even Augustine points at this from time to time. It's like if you had the perfect king. That's way better than having a democracy where some people they're wrong, they have bad ideas. But if you have one person who's dedicated to true good, that's great. There's no bureaucracy, things get done really quickly. It's a good government, but the problem is finding that person and two who's next in line right, do they carry on that?
Speaker 2:good, you know so like this is why monarchies we tend to shy away from them because you can't predict what's going to happen in the next generation. So the democracy is a good way of trying to keep, you know, keep the balance. But yeah, if you have the truly good king and we here at Rockhurst and at the Jesuit high schools throughout history, if we take our eyes off of God and we start only caring about these test scores and all of these skills or even something good like a virtue, like know social justice right, if we're, if that's all we're focused on, but we we take our eyes off god and we're focused on that, it's very easy to to get focused, to forget why we're doing things and it becomes a little bit virtue, like you know, kind of um virtue signaling or right or or selfish right.
Speaker 2:and so the great, the greatest gift and this is why ignatius started schools in the first place the gift he wanted to give the world is, through education, producing more powerful, good men and women, Because you change a city right with one or two If the mayor of the city comes out of a school who teaches them to be strong, powerful, how to think and to dedicate themselves to the good of others. Now your city is being well run. That affects everybody, right, and so that's the goal, I think.
Speaker 3:Okay, love it. Thank you for that.
Speaker 1:So as a product of a Jesuit high school yourself and then moving onward into joining the Jesuits, I would think that the theme of brotherhood kind of carries throughout that story. And so are there any people along the way you know whether that was back at St Louis University High that you met that helped kind of guide you in a brother-like way towards your vocation for your life as Jesuit or even now in your formation. You said you've been in formation for 20 years. That's something that.
Speaker 1:I always like to share with families when I'm talking about. What I think makes the Jesuits unique is that formation. I mean the idea that it's not just schooling. You guys go to school, you guys go on your experiments, which take you all over the world doing all different things, whether it's teaching in a classroom or working with refugees. So you have this great kind of long path, yes, but very dedicated path, and I would think that that has a lot of moments in which that idea of brotherhood really rings true.
Speaker 2:Oh sure, Absolutely. You know, when I was in high school myself, one of the great formative moments was being together with the other young men, my classmates, who were attached to either the campus. I wasn't in campus ministry, but I was friends with a lot of the guys who were as a high school. I was a little bit of a late bloomer in my maturity, but I still had the spiritual life, and so I'd hang out with some of those guys that were in campus ministry, and several of them actually became priests. So the guy who sat behind me in homeroom every day is also a Jesuit priest, Father Joseph Laramie. So I'm Kramer K-R-L-A. Alphabetically, he was behind me.
Speaker 2:And the CPM all four years of high school in homeroom and he and I both became Jesuit priests. There's a third guy in my high school class. So my high school class produced three priests and two men who are working for the province of the society of Jesus.
Speaker 2:You're like basically, and then, and, and a number of teachers at our schools, whether in Denver and St Louis, this, this recognition of, of wanting to become those people who give their life to the Lord in some way, whether it be as a teacher or just being a man for others, or indeed, you know, taking vows and living that life, and the support of them. Really, I don't know if you would have removed any one of them, right, do I end up here, that support? I think it was fundamental in helping keeping me moving along the path when I get to university. You know, and I'm at St Louis University, you know, there's 18,000 people on that campus. It's a, it's a huge thing. It's easy to get kind of lost.
Speaker 2:And and it was a friend of mine who not another Jesuit high school friend, but another Catholic high school friend who, when I was thinking about, like you know, what am I going to do on Sunday, and I was studying for a test, and he came up to me and says, hey, did you go to mass yet? And he brought me to math and it, it, that, that one little move, that one little invitation, he and I would all go to Sunday mass every day, and then some of our other friends started coming with us because we talked about oh, we're going to mass. And then you know. So how many people kept going to mass in university, where it's really easy to drop the ball because nobody's watching you, nobody's paying attention, mom's not saying you got to go to mass, you know. And that community carried us through. So I'm fully dedicated to the IAF community and then my Jesuit brothers over the years.
Speaker 2:I don't think I also could have survived this. There's a great saint who once had this I'll leave his story out, but he's got this great phrase. He's like community life is both the greatest cross and the greatest blessing of my life. Right, so live living with other people. You should, you know, you know. All married people know this right. Right, you chose your, your, your husband or your wife because because you love them. But something happens at about year one right around there.
Speaker 2:You're on there, you're looking at them and you're not feeling the honeymoon so much anymore and you're just looking at the floor, like at the dirty clothes on the on the floor and the bathroom is you're like I've made a huge mistake. You know, it's not that moment that you gotta that that's. Some people think that's the like a down point in their marriage. You know the day they woke up and they just wanted to strangle their partner. That's not it. That's actually.
Speaker 2:I tell this is the best moment of your entire marriage because this is the moment you can first give them an act of love, right. So what you're doing when you're in love, during the honeymoon and during that first year and that kind of golden age, you're making breakfast in bed because it makes your partner smile. You enjoy making them happy. You're really excited that you're doing it because it makes you happy to make them happy, right. But after a year, when you wake up, you just want to strangle them, right. If you're just even a little bit kind or a little bit patient, right, just even the smallest bit, you're doing that not because it's making you, that's a gift to them. That's, in fact, that little patience, that little just not leaving. That's the first true, selfless act that you can give your husband or wife and that's the moment that love really begins to grow Like, and it is precisely the moment you don't feel it. I think community life and brotherhood right is a similar thing.
Speaker 2:It's like it's nice in those good moments when you you're at the pep rally and you're like, oh, we're together and we're holding, you know we've got our hands around each other, we're singing the pep rally and you're like, oh, we're together and we're holding. You know, we got our hammers around each other, we're singing, they all modder together, right, but it's actually not. Those aren't the most important. The most important moments when you is, when you want to, you want to smack the other one and you and you choose to carry on as brothers and sisters. You know, that's, that's the glorious moment, that that creates character, that love grows, that shapes men and men and women into who they're meant to be.
Speaker 3:Yeah, 100%, 100%. I wanted to ask this question and this is a universal question. We ask every guest because we do this podcast for a lot of reasons. One of them is to tell our story. The other one is to also just get opinions on some of the deeper ties we have in this brotherhood that we're all a part of. If there was and I always hate it because it's so layered but if there's one thing and I'll open it up a little bit for you, because it's typically about freshmen, but like, if there's one thing that you would want our students to know or to take with them this year, what would that be?
Speaker 1:Hmm.
Speaker 2:So you've asked everyone this right, so my my answers are getting stacked up against, okay.
Speaker 2:And everyone I will say everyone's taken a very unique twist on it because I think, like we all, get this great experience of being part of these young men's life in such a formative time. So I think, anything you the place where we belong is in the high schools, most naturally, because you're with the students in the morning right before school starts. You're with them all day during school. You're with them and their families at night during the sport. You're with them all day and the opportunity for really having that connection, you know that brotherhood with our student body and their families is so, so deep. You know, if you're a university professor, how often do you see that you're shooting? You know a couple hours during a week. You know Monday, wednesday, friday, perhaps you know from two to three. So what do I want them to know?
Speaker 2:I'm having trouble in my mind, not kind of answering what I've already said, that my first priority is because I have my eyes on God, like Ignatius is to have is to. I'm desperate to teach these boys who they are. You know, don't you realize, regardless of your performance, regardless of your looks, regardless how smart you are, how good looking you are, how athletic you are, how many friends you have, what the state of your family life is like, regardless of any of this, you are already, already God's beloved child, and if that is actually understood, if people really get that, it changes everything. It changes. You can live life as a hero at that point, because all other things I mean just not to go scriptural on you but to say, paul, everything else is loss. I consider it loss. I consider everything else to be worthless next to that one fact, you know.
Speaker 2:And so with the birthday blessings, with the way that I'm going to preach, you know. And so with the birthday blessings, with the way that I'm going to preach, you know at masses, with how I hope that our faculty start speaking, and if we articulate this out loud and we actually start saying it in a hundred different ways, over and over and over again, and if we even catch a few of the boys to get them to start to believe this, you have just created a few heroes that are, that are going to change the world, and they're going to change their families. And so that's the one thing that I'm, I'm utterly dedicated to getting done, because if, once you know who you are, once you really know who you are, then you will grow up to be the kind of person, man or woman who looks in the mirror and are proud of what you see, right?
Speaker 3:who looks in the?
Speaker 2:mirror and are proud of what you see, and that's what I want for them. There's a great tragedy in this world of people who don't like themselves, which is why we have to pretend to be likable, and that's why we have to put the gold chains on, because we're actually afraid that we're not good enough, and so we have to try to prove it or lie to ourselves.
Speaker 1:I think that's such an important point too, especially in the age of social media. I ourselves, I think that's such an important point too, especially in the age of social media. I mean, all three of us kind of got to grow up unscathed by that need for the like, for the attention you know, to some point. So having a thought to recenter ourselves on things that truly matter and not just what is appearing to matter. And one of the things, one of my favorite traditions we have here at Rockhurst, is our daily prayer of the examine at the end of the day.
Speaker 1:I think that's a unique experience, especially when I think, in the context of my career, has mostly been dealing with adolescents and one of the things they're really not great about is sitting in silence and thinking and reviewing and maybe making some changes to their life to help improve it. So when I got here, that was one of the things that I think struck me within my first couple days of active classroom time was this time that we spend at the end of the day reviewing our day and reviewing our choices and maybe choices we want to make in our future. Can you talk a little bit about why you think that prayer is maybe important to our students?
Speaker 2:Right. Well, that prayer is a glorious addition to the spiritual life by Ignatius. It predates him to some degree, but he redefines it and hones it into golly. I'd call it a spiritual weapon. In fact, ignatius has two different examens. Most people don't know this, and I'm actually this is another. One of my little crusades is to actually help people recognize that there's actually two different. One's called the particular examen, and so Ignatius would presume that.
Speaker 2:Okay, most people on Earth are kind of caught up in the sin life. You know, they've got like some sort of vice, that that kind of runs their life a little bit Right. You can't be free, for example, to be generous and charitable, right. So if you are overtaken by greed, if you've got ten dollars in your pocket and you see a homeless person who you actually feel bad for, but you can't overcome your greed, you're never going to be charitable Right. So you're not free actually to be a good man or woman because you're owned by this greed or whatever it may be, gluttony, lust, any of the. You know the seven deadlies. There's actually eight of them, the eight deadly habits I'll call it that way the eight deadly sins. Well, so the particular examen.
Speaker 2:Ignatius presumed you would do that first until you've ripped up all of your major vices Not that you're totally sin-free, sinful person, but that you're not being controlled by all these vices. You would do that first and foremost. And then you would do this general exam where you're just kind of saying, okay, well, where have I done good and bad? Which is what we do, that's what we lead with in most of our schools now, but I think, using the particular examen and not just about sin but about good, so you think about this, you ask the question about the one sin. So so let's say it's gluttony. So you would do the examen every day until you start to get a handle on gluttony. It's like, okay, god, where did I use food inappropriately today? Where did I do something purely for my own comfort? Which is what gluttony is not literally just about food, it's doing anything, just to be physically comfortable.
Speaker 2:So whether it's food or oversleeping, or using too many pillows, I don't know you know, whatever it may, be, and so once you get a handle, and just the fact that you're looking at it and tracking the same one over through days, just the fact that you're looking sunshine is the best disinfectant that sin will shrink, it will like on its own accord. It's a very effective tool, and so do this on the positive side, right? So I think a particular examen dedicated to looking in your life and asking the question where did I experience love? Right, and. And so you ask that question today in today's exam.
Speaker 2:Okay, think of a time in your life, the earliest time that you remember. So the kid's sitting there and he's thinking and he's conjuring up this image of, of a loving moment from his childhood. And the examen says, okay, god, we know your love itself. That was you, thank you Amen. And then the next day we think of another one. Think of a moment of love that you had with a friend, right, you know. Or with a parent or guardian, you know, and so, and if we march you through your life and you're, you're conjuring up this moment and go, that was God, thank you Amen. This is that prayer. The examen does a lot of moving that knowledge that you're God's beloved into your bone. So it's a very powerful tool for inculcating virtues, getting rid of vices, and I would love to see it used this way to help our boys start to recognize who they are.
Speaker 3:All right, I'm actually bummed about this, but I have to ask you the final question.
Speaker 2:Oh, no, okay.
Speaker 3:I have to ask We'll have to have you back on, because I'm very intrigued by how you speak about the Ignatian spirituality and I think you do a phenomenal job at it.
Speaker 2:so final question I plagiarized the whole thing it's his stuff none of these were my idea.
Speaker 3:Put that out there so if you could tell a prospective family the number one reason they should send their son to Rockhurst High School, what would it be?
Speaker 2:Again, at the risk of saying something I've already said. One way to put it is I want to help form young men who, when they grow up, they can look in the mirror and respect who they see Right. And the only way you can do that is by knowing who you are and then also being dedicated to a meaningful cause.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right. So if there's no meaning, you can't get yourself out of bed in the morning, the only reason you get out of bed is because there's some reason to do it. Right Now, some of our teenage boys and if you have, if you have a teenage children yourself, you might recognize this moment the teenage boy's life the only reason he gets out of bed on a saturday morning is because he has to go to the bathroom that's like.
Speaker 2:So the only meaning he has is I am unwilling to go to the bathroom on myself right, you know at this point and that's the only meaning that got him out of the bed.
Speaker 2:That was the only anything short of that. Right's still in bed. Right, but if you have a purpose to get out of bed, now that we have football play, we have swimmers who get up at four in the morning and get over to the pool at 5.00 AM to do to do a workout. Now, that's, that's not an easy thing, that's a painful thing to do and dads have to and moms have to get up and at the same time and bring those, those kids and you see, the ones who really care about it right, they pop out of bed, right, that like they've got a meaning to get through the day. And so if the kid doesn't want to do it, let's. Let's say his mom and dad are forcing him to swim. He's suffering, right, this is a terrible thing to do to him. Right, he's like, and he experiences that getting up early, that as just meaningless pain because he doesn't have his own motivation.
Speaker 2:What we aim to do here at Rockhurst is to help point out a reason, a meaning of life that is so worthwhile that there is no suffering or pain that you can endure in this life. That isn't worth it. Right, pain that you can endure in this life, that isn't worth it. Right. And and because if you're suffering without meaning, victor frankl, amazing writer, psychologist, wonderful man, and he's got this line he's like suffering or pain without meaning is suffering. The moment, that's, that pain finds meaning is no longer suffering, right it? It becomes part of the heroic journey towards the, the goal that you're on. And so we're here to provide a meaning that makes the entirety of this life, all of its pain, all of its difficulty, all of its struggle, worthwhile. And the only meaning worth it is love itself, it's God himself, it's Christ.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Amen.
Speaker 1:That's definitely one of the first things I told Steve that he would notice here is that kids don't run out the door at 245.
Speaker 3:They do not.
Speaker 1:And that's like a surreal experience when you've worked in schools for a long time is that I do think we do a great job of giving them a reason to stick around campus and to be here. So, father Kramer, thank you so much for joining us today. Appreciate you very much. We are really excited. You so much for joining us today. We are really excited.
Speaker 1:Father Kramer is actually kicking off or segueing into our next round of four podcasts which are going to center around that idea of Ignatian spirituality and how we incorporate the spiritual life here at Rockhurst. So our first guests in that cycle are going to be Mr Matt Nixon and his two freshman retreat co-chairleaders. Freshman retreat is a big deal here at Rockhurst. Both of you will get to experience your first one here in just a few weeks. But what that?
Speaker 1:I always tell parents it's our biggest welcome we could possibly make, not just from a spiritual aspect of really connecting them with why we're here like you said, that greater glory of God, what our purpose is, but also in the sense of our upperclassmen. We have about 150 upperclassmen that spend the better part of six to eight months planning that retreat and executing that retreat. They do all the work we as adults just get to sit and observe, which is pretty cool, and they do some really neat things. We'll let them share a little bit more about that next week, steve, but from Steve and myself and Father Kramer, thank you for listening and we look forward to seeing you soon.