Rock Talk
Rock Talk is the official podcast of Rockhurst High School in Kansas City, Missouri — where we explore the voices, values, and vibrant life of our Jesuit, college-prep community. Hosted by the Admissions and Marketing team, each episode features conversations with students, faculty, alumni, and special guests as we share stories of academic excellence, faith formation, brotherhood, and service. Whether you're a prospective family, a proud alumnus, or simply curious about what makes Rockhurst unique — this is your inside look at life at The Rock.
Rock Talk
Seeing God in All Things: Adult Formation at The Rock
Ever wonder what makes a Jesuit education different? Rich Sullivan, who has devoted 27 years to Rockhurst High School as a teacher, coach, and now Director of Ignatian Identity, reveals the heart of what makes "The Rock" unique.
"Our goal isn't just to get these kids into Harvard. Our goal is to get these kids into heaven," Sullivan shares, quoting former president Father Baum. This powerful philosophy guides everything at Rockhurst, where forming "men for others" takes precedence over any single achievement.
The conversation explores how Rockhurst cultivates faith formation for both students and adults through retreats, spiritual exercises, and community building. Sullivan describes monthly faculty meetings, silent retreats, pilgrimages, and workshops that help teachers understand and embody Jesuit values before passing them on. "We do so many Jesuit things that we're not consciously aware of," he explains, highlighting how his role helps uncover these distinctive practices.
Perhaps most moving is Sullivan's reflection on the Rockhurst community itself – the dedicated mentors who shaped his own understanding of Jesuit education through their example. This spirit extends to athletics, where coaches teach students that "you're loved whether you win or lose," embodying Ignatius's teachings on detachment and finding God in all things.
For parents considering Rockhurst, Sullivan offers this perspective: "There are a lot of seeds planted here. Some grow quickly, some take time to germinate, but I can guarantee your son will be exposed to the questions that will give him meaning in life."
Join us for this insightful conversation about faith formation at Rockhurst and discover why, after nearly three decades, Rich Sullivan remains passionate about the transformative power of Jesuit education.
Welcome to Rock Talk, the official podcast of Rockers High School in Kansas City, Missouri, where we explore the voices, values, and vibrant life of our Jesuit college prep community. Hosted by the admissions and marketing team, each episode features conversations with students, faculty, alumni, and special guests as we share stories of academic excellence, faith formation, brotherhood, and service. Whether you're a prospective family, a proud alumnus, or simply curious about what makes The Rock unique, this is your inside look at life at The Rock. Good morning. Today we have a very special guest. Mr. Rich Sullivan, our director of Ignatian Identity at Rockhurst. Mr. Sullivan, you want to tell us a little bit about yourself and give us a little bit more background about what brought you to Rockers?
SPEAKER_02:Thanks. My name is Rich Sullivan. This is my 27th year at Rockhurst High School. I came here in 1999. I went to a Jesuit high school myself back in Fall River, Massachusetts. Then I went to a Dominican college. And my wife grew up in Kansas City. We decided to move back to Kansas City after she won, and we decided to come back to Kansas City. And I've been at Rockhurst ever since then. I've served in a number of different capacities in the building as a social studies instructor, as a college counselor, as an assistant cross-country coach, as a head tennis coach. And my primary focus, however, is as the director of Ignation Education. I also had two sons who came through. Okay. One graduated in 2018 and one graduated in 2022.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Now go back for me, because you said you went you went to a Jesuit high school. Where what was the name of the school?
SPEAKER_02:Okay, so the the the Jesuit high school that I went to is called Bishop Conley High School in Fall River, Massachusetts.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:It was originally a diocesan school. However, it ran into some problems, and they asked the Jesuits to come in and take it over. The Jesuits came over, came in and took it over. And unfortunately, it closed about three years ago. Oh wow. The Jesuits had not been affiliated with the school for about 10 years. They went back to the diocese and the school closed about three years ago.
SPEAKER_00:So that's that that's a bummer. And then what what university did you go to?
SPEAKER_02:I went to Providence College, which is a Dominican college in Rhode Island.
SPEAKER_00:I'm very I'm getting more interested. I've said this before on the podcast, but like I think it was with Alan Roderman when he were talking about how he went to Rockhurst University. Is that correct? And then you know with my kids, I have daughters, but with them not being able to go to Rockhurst, I have this like, man, I wonder if they can go to a Jesuit university. So I'm like always taking notes of what colleges and universities are out there. But cool, cool, cool. Our theme for the first four episodes of this series centers around faith and formation. What does that mean to you in the context of Rockhurst and in your role specifically? Because you you have a very unique role, but what does that mean to you?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I think I think when I whenever I start thinking about faith and formation and I think about working in a high school, the the phrase that comes to mind right away is cure personalis. And the idea I think that makes a place like Rocker so special is that we truly, truly, truly are educated. I mean, we're truly interested in educating the whole person. The whole person. You know, I I I think back to when I worked in college counseling and Father Baum, who was the president at the time, used to remind us that our goal isn't just to get these kids into Harvard. Our goal is to get these kids into heaven. And I think that is that is what formation is about for me at Rockhurst High School. That we are about forming these kids to be good people, to be men for others, to to care about fan friends, family, their community, their church. And that's uh it's kind of a special thing. It involves a lot of different steps.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you have kind of a unique perspective as someone who your real role as director of nation identity is to really look at how we form our adults on campus to be good examples of faith in the everyday life of the boys. And I know I've been a beneficiary of many of the things that you do. So tell us a little bit more about what adult faith formation looks like on on Rockers campus.
SPEAKER_02:Well, uh again, I think that adult faith formation is so important because we ask so much from these boys. You know, when you think about the things that we talk to them about, like we talked about, what does it mean to be a man for others? Well, if our faculty have never really considered that question, it's going to be very, very difficult for to get our boys to embrace that concept. We ask them to be, you know, the the gratitude, which is such an important part of what we're looking for with the boys, right? You know, committed to justice, religious, open to growth, intellectually competent and loving. We ask that of our boys and our faculty need to know what we mean by that. What we well what what does that actually mean in the context of a Jesuit education? And so we spend a little time going over what it means to be a Jesuit educator. Perhaps, you know, the the the Jesuits have a 500-year tradition of doing this. And again, the idea here is that we're producing men for others. We're producing men who are good citizens, who have a belief in the common good, and so our faculty need to understand where that tradition came from and how to bring out the best in everybody.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I being new faculty or staff or whatever whatever designation I fall under, I was extremely I w I would say excited, but my heart was warmed when I got to see the other side of the fence, my experience, right? I came through here as a student, and I I know all the conversations we were having, I know the experiences we were put through to help us be men for others and you know, glorify the Lord and all of that. But then when I got the handbook and I started to read through the handbook, which you know, I I'm a learner, man. Like I I like learning and understanding what I'm involved with, and to see the language that was in there for the leaders in the school. Whether you're leading a classroom, a department, uh, you know, whatever, I'm like, oh, that's cool. The adult formation that I'm a part of. I'm like, wow, that's really, really cool because I'm a big believer of two things. One, you know, one of my folks used to tell me this all the time was, you know, there's no substitute for experience. Now, and and when you you know, not everybody is Jesuit or Catholic, but being able to understand the umbrella we're all under when we're here is very important. It's bigger than just teaching math, it's bigger than, you know, let me talk to you about, you know, this event that happened uh in a theology class, and then, you know, the other one being, you know, when a leader gets better, everybody gets better. And having leaders that are subject to more, you know, is it's cool because it makes sense to me. Oh, this is why the culture was what it was, is because all of the teachers and you know, the staff and everybody went, you know, through their own formation process. And no matter where they were on their journey, you know, no faith, deep in faith, you're forming yourself so you can help form and shape young men. And I and I think that's pretty impactful for sure.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, one of the things, you know, I tell people all the time, having worked in Catholic education for my entire career, you know, starting in the university level, going back to elementary and middle school, and then coming now to high school, is that the thing that struck me as so unique and different about Rockhurst is the fact that in our professional development, right? It's we do the professional development like any other school. But there is this added to me, incredibly important, added bonus of this faith formation, this focus on not just forming yourself professionally, but like you said, with kind of what Father Baum said, you know, what what are our end goals? Our end goal is to get into heaven. And and part of a huge part of what we do here is mission-based work. You know, everyone that's at the school is here because they believe in the mission and what we do here. But I think having a context for that is so important. And so our next question is going to be around your favorite experience today. But before we get to your answer, I'm gonna tell you my favorite adult for faith formation experience today. So I've I've done quite a few things. I think Rich is probably sick of me signing up at this point. But my second year I did the spiritual exercises, which was a great experience. And for those of you listening at home that haven't heard about it, it's a nine-month retreat. It's an incredibly powerful experience. Um our local office for the was the Ignatian Spirituality Center. Yes, Ignatian Spirituality Center is who runs it. And so people that aren't even associated with the college or the or this high school can take on this retreat if it's something that they're interested in, or even train to become a guide for it, which I think is an incredibly great ministry, but it's a great experience. But my my favorite one to date has been the silent retreat I got to go on, which was nice enough to send me to Belize to be silent, which I will tell you there were many bets hedged at my house between my brothers and my parents and uh, you know, cousins, et cetera, saying there's no way that she's gonna go and be silent for a week. And it it was a truly transformational experience for me. I think it's probably the first time in my life, let alone my adult life, that I took time to really be fully immersed in a conversation with God, which I think is really important. And doing it in such a beautiful setting is Blaze with the wonderful people from St. John's College down there. It was a wonderful experience. And I I tried to explain it to some of my coworkers as I never thought you could grow close to other people without speaking to them. And it's this kind of really crazy revelation that you can be in the same space as someone for a week and feel this intimacy or closeness to them without ever actually speaking to them till the very end of the retreat. So it was a really neat and unique experience. So I I'm incredibly appreciative of that. So, what what was your favorite experience kind of day, either leading or going on yourself?
SPEAKER_02:Well, let me let me go through, you know, some of the experiences that we offer first, just because I think that gives it a little more context or whatever. So generally we we meet monthly with first-year teachers, and then we meet monthly with second-year teachers. And we're using right now, we're using Father James Martin's book, The Jesuit Guide to Almost Everything. We kind of use that as a basis to discuss Jesuit theology and Jesuit spirituality so that they understand what it is. One of the things that's amazing about to me about working in a Jesuit school is that we do so many Jesuit things that we're not consciously aware of the fact that we're doing these things that make us distinctly Jesuit. And part of my job, I think, is to help people to uncover those things that they are actually doing in the classroom, that they're doing outside of the classroom, that make us unique. And I think that that helps. Then we also offer a new Ignation Educators retreat, which is a fascinating experience because we usually drive to St. Louis and we meet up with school we meet up with schools from the central and southern province, which includes uh schools from Dallas, Houston, St. Louis, Tampa, New Orleans, Colorado, and sometimes on a good day in Belize, we actually they send up somebody from there. And what happens is we gather in a room and we we go through some of the major ideas of Jesuit, you know, spirituality, but it also gives the faculty members an opportunity to see that there are people doing this all over, not just you know, the central and southern part of the United States, but all over the world. And we're all engaged in a common enterprise. And I think a lot of people find that kind of reassuring. Oh, okay, this is stuff that everybody's trying to do, or that we're all trying to do. We've also had an opportunity for faculty members to go on silent retreats, uh, as as the one that you went on. We've had faculty members who have gone on the Camino, which is in in Spain, which is a pilgrimage that, you know, runs throughout the Spain. It's a walking pilgrimage. We have had faculty members who have attended local retreats as well. And the school also runs a faculty and staff retreat every year as well. I I was trying to think about what what my own personal experience is, and there's certain things that have helped me in my own for faith formation. I made the exercises, and that was with that without that, I'm not sure I would be in this role that I am today. But I think one of the things that is so special about Rockhurst High School is the community. I've been around a lot of really, really, really amazing people in this building. Amazing teachers, amazing mentors, amazing Jesuits who have all kind of either explicitly or implicitly taught me what it meant to be a Jesuit educator. You know, I think of some of the names, you know, I you know, in in the words of Newton here, if I've seen further, it's because I've stood on the shoulders of giants. And I think of some of the names that have been here, and and and Steve, you might know some of these, and you might know some of these as well. But you know, I I think I think of I think of Father Pesci, Father Tom Pesce, I think of Father Gary Menard, uh I think of Father Baum, Terry Baum, I think of uh Mr. Tom Norman, I think of Dr. Jerry Gobin, I think of Mr. Andy Hagedorn, I think of Coach Severino, all of these men and Mr. Ruby, so many people who shaped my spirituality, even if it wasn't explicit, right? It was like, wait, wait a minute, these people are they're they're giving up so much time, so much energy, so much love to bring about sort of this, you know, the greater glory of God. Right. And they do it on a daily basis. They're here at six o'clock in the morning and they're here till 11 o'clock at night. And they did it sometimes for 30 years, 40 years. And so I think that that's been my favorite experience is working and interacting with this community, all in an effort, again, for the greater glory of God. And that's a neat thing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it does kind of make every day in a way kind of feel like a retreat, you know, and when you're working with people under this common goal, under this common language, which I think is really important. Steve, what's been I know you you've only really gotten one experience so far.
SPEAKER_00:He hasn't gone on the new teacher uh retreat yet, but um uh I was gonna say I'm disappointed that I'm not gonna be able to go on a retreat this year. I'm gonna have to figure it out for next year, but I'm really excited about it. What was my favorite experience?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so so far you've done the morning first year conversations.
SPEAKER_00:I and I you well, I'll I'll speak of it like this, because I enjoy those because similar to what you just said, there's so much to be learned, if you will, from just hearing other people talk about how they experience God, how they live their life, and I'm always intrigued by that. I'm intrigued by the community as well. Like I said, you even being able to see the words in the handbook, it instantly uh put years of experience into place for me because it's like, oh, this is why Coach Sev did this, this is why Coach So and so did this, this is why my teachers were the way they were. And it was always more than the grade every time. Every and and I and I had a very rough experience personally when I was here. So that moved me more than anything was having these interactions where I'm getting challenged, and what came across to me as challenged as a young man was really love, which is like, oh, that's why, that's why you didn't just say, Oh, yeah, whatever, you'll figure it out every time. And you know, that was probably my when I think about Rockhurst in the community, to what you're saying, Mr. Sullivan. That is easily my most meaningful um experience. I think back to there was a retreat that I went on and I cannot even remember which one it was. Because it you know I was talking about 20 years ago. But I remember going on a retreat, and it had to be the freshman retreat, maybe. Were they off campus back then, Mr. Solon? The freshman retreat. I'm trying to remember.
unknown:Gosh, I can't remember.
SPEAKER_00:I remember we were in a dorm room from and it was me. Maybe it was the junior retreat. Okay, so getting old, right? But I just remember at that point, you know, and this is kind of the experience we all go through. Freshman year, you're figuring stuff out, you're kinda awkward. I don't I'm trying to find my place. Sophomore year, you got your legs under you a little bit. Junior year for me was that oh this is family. Like these are my brothers. This I have a deeper understanding of the community, and going on that retreat really moved a lot of the other posturing out of the way. We got really deep, we got really connected, and that's when we in my mind, how I always say this, is when we started to really see each other. Like, I know you live over there, and I live over here, but oh we actually are as as we talk, like seeing God in all things. I I see who the Lord has made you. And it was a really cool experience for me because I I was talking to a family about this the other day. Those moments helped me realize, like, oh man, I got friends that I never would have imagined I had. And it wasn't because of the football victories. I mean, that helped, but like it was those deeper moments. And so as loosely as I answered that question, that experience on that retreat was something that meant a lot to me.
SPEAKER_02:And I think it's I think that that's where the adult faith formation comes in because we have those retreats, we have those moments, and one of the things that I think that makes Rockhurst unique is that we have faculty members who are willing to go there.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Faculty and staff members who are willing to share about their their their lives in an effort to influence and shape young men. And that doesn't just happen naturally. You know, it's actually uh it's a goal of of Rockhurst High School. But, you know, it I began my career years ago in a in a public school, and it was a tremendous, tremendous public school. It's a you know, a great district with great kids, great families, great, great people. But we were never, we were almost warned not to go there, not to share anything about ourselves personally because if we do that, you know, the you might be crossing lines or you know, you don't want to talk about your faith, you don't want to talk about anything. And here at Rockers, we're no, no, here's here's kind of some of the stuff that I've been through. And if you need somebody to talk to about some of this stuff, yeah, here I am. And I think that that's a really, really special thing that we offer here.
SPEAKER_01:And I think that that that's exactly it, because I think of, you know, I've gone on the Kairos retreat, for example, for the last uh seven years since I've been here. And each year I joke, I've I've done the same, same talk every time, except my very first time. And each time that that talk evolves a little, and I think it's because a lot of my conversation is in that talk is about how we interact with God when things are tough and difficult, uh, because it's all about the obstacles to God's friendship. And I think that what the tools that I've received through the adult faith formation at Rockhurst is is it has allowed me to talk about that in a way and articulate that better every single time I give that talk. So by continuing to improve my relationship, my own spiritual relationship with God, I can then share with my students how to do that. And I think that's really special. One thing your office is an affiliate of the Ignatian Spirituality Center. Well sign up, right?
SPEAKER_02:Not not really. It's an office that's sponsored by Rockhurst High School. And what we've done is we've kind of created a bridge with the Ignatian Spirituality Center. So I've had the pleasure of working with a lot of people from the Ignatian Spirituality Center on a lot of different things. But they are a separate entity in a Jesuits kind of refer to them as apostolates. And there's like Rockhurst University is an apostolate, St. Francis Xavier, when it was run by the Jesuits, was an apostolate, Rockhurst High School is an apostolate, and the Ignatian Spirituality. And what we've done is we've provided a kind of a bridge between us rather than being so separated.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Let's work together and see what we can do to accomplish things.
SPEAKER_01:And expand offerings, it sounds like too.
SPEAKER_00:So, real quick, just for the the listeners, what is an apostolate? It's a it's it's a mission from from the Jesuits.
SPEAKER_02:So essentially it is it is it is a a an office or a a ministry that is sponsored by the Jesuit. Gotcha. The Jesuits. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:And actually, a neat fun fact is that currently the director of the Ignatian Spirituality Center, Mike Zanem, is a graduate of uh Rockhurst High School from 2002. So I think that that's really cool too, that we we have a person in that office that's that's living at the mission that is a graduate of the school. And I think that speaks volumes to to the work we do here.
SPEAKER_02:And their primary function is to bring Ignatian spirituality to the adult community. So they will bring the the the number one thing that they do is they they guide people on the exercises, which you said earlier, which is a nine-month retreat, but they also offer other retreats, other workshops, classes, and a variety of different things for the adult community. So if there are any parents out there who are interested in more, I'm gonna put a little plug there. But if you're if they're interested in learning more about Ignatian Spirituality on the Ignatian Spirituality Center is a great, great, great place to start.
SPEAKER_01:So you just touched on something real real quick that the adult faith formation is specifically with parents. And that's another thing that has kind of really impressed me by Rockhartst is that we engage in several activities with our parent population. So since I've been here, I've seen that grow even. So we started with uh the you know, there there's a women's day of prayer retreat. My mom, who's an alum mom, still even goes to that. You know, we have things like Father Son Mass, mom's in prayer. But then I've seen now we bring in the Jesuit speaker series, which again gives parents uh a look at people that are living as Jesuits throughout many provinces, doing many different jobs, many different ministries. That's a great offering we have here on campus. Like you said, we have parents that have done the exercises. And I've had conversations with parents that have done it and how powerful that is. So I think it's that we always say that home is kind of the first teacher, right, of the faith. And so I think the fact that, yes, we invest very heavily in our our faculty development in the faith area, but also our parent, you know, investment there. Steve, what were you?
SPEAKER_00:Um I wanted to ask you this question. So you've when when I was here and you were still roaming the halls doing your thing, you were an assistant cross-country coach. Right. You're a tennis coach now. You've held many other seats, but specifically in regards to athletics, how do you bring this into coaching when you're working with young men? And and I know a rock hurts is a little unique because there is such a energy and expectation of performing well and doing well academically, socially, all of these things. But how do you bring that into the equation when you coach your teams or your athletes?
SPEAKER_02:I think I think that when you bring it into uh w uh and again, uh I want to win. Everybody wants to win. That's you know, that's that's why we do sports. We want we we want to compete and we wanna we wanna we wanna win. But there's so much more, as you know, as far as sports are concerned. We we want to compete fairly, we want to compete to the best of our abilities, we want to be able to win with class, and we wanna be able to lose with class. And I think that that's those the Jesuits have a really, really good way. They they Ignatius talks a lot about indifference and the first principle and foundation and and sort of detachment. And I think that we try to bring that into us when we when we when we compete in sports. Yeah. You know, you're loved whether you win or lose. And that's a really powerful lesson, I think, for kids to learn because they put so much effort into it, but to understand that no, this doesn't change who you are as a person. Right. This doesn't change who you are, you know, your your worth in any way, shape, or form. You're loved. Now let's go out there and do our best.
SPEAKER_00:100%. And I think that's uh important, you know, I've like I've said this before, I've coached and mentor, I still do, athletes, and trying to get them to walk that line of yes, you're investing a lot of energy, yes, you want to win, yes, you're you're there's so many sacrifices going into you doing this, but at the same time, win or lose, and I love winning, I love it, I love it, I love it. But win or lose, when you walk away from this thing that hasn't altered your position or your stature with the Lord, he loves you because of how you've gone out to represent him in whatever the thing is that you're doing, and in this case, sport. So I was just curious about that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, no, it's a it's a it is a big part of of it, and I think that it's one of the things that we you know we we do emphasize here. We definitely want to win. I love walking into that gym and seeing all those banners. Yeah. But at the same time, we also want to teach our student athletes that you will lose sometimes. And it doesn't change anything about you. Right. As long as you know that you've given 100% in everything that you do, then God's happy, we're happy, your coaches are happy, your parents are happy, and your teammates are happy.
SPEAKER_01:See that Ignatian spirituality is already rubbing off on you, Steve, because even Ignatius himself, you know, changed from kind of this glamour guy that was seeking glory and and war and to a guy who decided that glory was better stuck, you know, pleasing God. And I think that that's exactly what you guys were both talking about, is that at a at the end of the day, if if your goal is to do your very best in honor of God, then you're you're on a good path.
SPEAKER_02:And I think I feel that way in the classroom too, because I still teach a couple of classes, and again, it's the same thing. You know, the the kids joke, I I sometimes say grades don't matter. Well, of course, grades matter. But what's more important is are you becoming a good person? Yeah. And I think that that's what makes rockers special. For sure.
SPEAKER_01:Well, you teed that up perfectly. Our favorite close-out question for everybody, and don't worry, we've asked everybody this question. As both a a teacher here, but also a past parent of uh two rockers tocklets. You could tell a prospective family the number one reason they should send their son to rockers, what would it be?
SPEAKER_02:It's for the formation. It's for the fan formation. There are a lot of seeds planted here. You know, I I I I I'm trying to figure out how the best way to articulate this. There are a lot of seeds planted there. Some of them grow really, really, really quickly. Some of them take a long time to germinate. But I can guarantee your son, if he comes to Rockhurst High School, will be exposed to the questions that will give him meaning in life.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's great and incredibly well put. Speaking of alumni coming back, you may have heard a little ruckus in this this podcast today, but we have um our golden hawklets on campus today, which is always a Special Yeah, special event and it's homecoming week, lots of fun things going on. And kind of what's what's cool about that is our our next conversation around faith and formation is gonna be alumni focused. We're gonna bring in some of our alumni that work currently here at The Rock and different capacities that can share their own perspective of how being formed here as a student, coming back here as a teacher, they've continued to grow in their faith and and share their faith with others. So we'll have a little alumni corner next episode. So be sure you tune in. And as always, thank you, Mr. Sullivan, for joining us today, taking time out of your busy day. I know you got your first big AP test this Friday. Yes.
SPEAKER_02:In world history. I'm already nervous.
SPEAKER_01:So, sophomores, I hope you're studying, but we really appreciate you taking the time to see us today.
SPEAKER_00:Well, thanks for having me. Yeah, it's been a bless. All right. All right.