Rock Talk
Rock Talk is the official podcast of Rockhurst High School in Kansas City, Missouri — where we explore the voices, values, and vibrant life of our Jesuit, college-prep community. Hosted by the Admissions and Marketing team, each episode features conversations with students, faculty, alumni, and special guests as we share stories of academic excellence, faith formation, brotherhood, and service. Whether you're a prospective family, a proud alumnus, or simply curious about what makes Rockhurst unique — this is your inside look at life at The Rock.
Rock Talk
Barbecue, Bible, and Brotherhoood: Yes, That’s A Class
A humming activity period sets the scene as we sit down with three alumni who chose to come back to Rockhurst High School and teach theology. What unfolds is a grounded, energizing look at how faith formation actually works in a Jesuit college prep: mentors who shaped their vocation, a curriculum that moves from Scripture to social justice and vocation, and a community that treats retreats, service, athletics, arts, and even BBQ metaphors as real places to find God in all things.
We unpack why formation is more than memorizing answers—it’s learning to ask better questions and training the mind and heart to hold them with patience, charity, and intellectual honesty. We welcome Mr. Jon Feder '10, Mr. Ryan McAnany '12 and Mr. Luke McLellan '00 who explain “identity before action,” the idea that you can’t know what to do until you know who you are, and how cruciform love anchors Rockhurst’s signature values of brotherhood, leadership, and service. They walk through the four-year sequence: freshman Scripture, sophomore tradition and sacraments, junior philosophy and ethics with tracks in world religions or faith-and-reason apologetics, and a senior year focused on social justice and vocation. Along the way, we talk about collaboration between theology, campus ministry, retreats, and service—and how the school evolves its methods without losing its mission.
There’s heart here too: stories about teachers who kept relationships alive long after graduation, a duct-taped cell phone, Kairos road trips, and the Z-Man sandwich that somehow sparks real ethics debates. Whether you’re Catholic, another faith, or simply curious about how a Jesuit education forms young people to think deeply and love well, this conversation shows how Rockhurst turns big questions into a way of life.
If this resonates, follow the show, share it with a friend who cares about education and character, and leave a quick review with your biggest question about faith and formation. We read them all and might feature yours next time.
Welcome to Rock Talk, the official podcast of Rockhurst High School in Kansas City, Missouri, where we explore the voices, values, and vibrant life of our Jesuit college prep community. Hosted by the Admissions and Marketing Team, each episode features conversations with students, faculty, alumni, and special guests as we share stories of academic excellence, faith formation, brotherhood, and service. Whether you're a prospective family, a proud alumnus, or simply curious about what makes Rockhurst unique, this is your inside look at Life at the Rock. Good morning. This morning we are very fortunate to have uh three of our alumni faculty members. So they are alums of Rockhurst High School and have chosen to come back and teach at Rockhurst High School, specifically in our theology department, which I think speaks volumes to the formation process they've received at Rockhurst and how they've chosen this vocation for their life. As you can probably hear, I'm solo today. Steve is out. He has recently taken a leadership role in our Black Student Union, which is great. We're currently in activity period as we speak. So if you hear a little rumbling outside the studio here, it is thanks to our very vibrant campus life. So why don't we get started, guys, with you introducing yourself? Uh Ryan, why don't you start?
SPEAKER_01:Thanks, Beth. Yeah, my name is Ryan McNanie and uh class of 2012. I am married to Moira. Shout out to Moira and my kids, Beatrice and Patrick. And I'm the son of Patrick McNanny class of 75 and Mel and went to the University of Dallas and graduated there with degree in history. And then I came back here in 2017. I've been teaching English and theology ever since then, and uh got my master's from the Augustine Institute in 2023. Go ahead, Bose.
SPEAKER_03:I'm John Fetter from the class of 2010. I went to the University of Nebraska, spent a year in the alum service corps with the Jesuits in the central and southern province of the U.S. and taught at Rupe Jesuit High School, and then I'm back at Rockhurst now, teaching in the theology department, coaching soccer, helping with the outdoors club and sources of strength.
SPEAKER_02:Hi, I'm Luke McClellan. I'm class of 2000. I went to Rockhurst University where I graduated in 2004. This is my 21st year at Rockhurst teaching theology. And I help with the Outdoors Club and I help run the video game club. I just finished a graduate degree in theology at the University of Notre Dame this past summer, and I also went to KU for a degree in global international studies.
SPEAKER_00:Great. Thank you guys so much for coming and talking to us today. Today is our fourth episode of kind of looking at the themes of faith and formation at Rockhurst. So I know you guys kind of briefly chatted about this, but if you don't mind kind of sharing a little bit more about what brought you brought you back to the rock, like what brought you back here to dedicate your life to teaching young men.
SPEAKER_01:If I could just start, I mean, one of the people's here in the room right now with me, Luke Clellan, and I just like to name names. I mean, it's uh my teachers definitely brought me back here to the rock. Uh Rich Sullivan, Andy Hagadorn, Mike Dirks, Marvin Grillio, a lot of these great teachers who have been here for a long time. I'm just their witness, their love of teaching. I think, yeah, they definitely they were they were God's hands and feet and bring me back to the rock. So I'm very thankful for them to inspire my own personal vocation to come back here to the rock.
SPEAKER_03:I'd echo a lot of what Ryan said too, and it being largely uh the influence of the faculty that I had as teachers when I was a student, Luke McClellan being one of them, and I'd echo a lot of the same names Ryan said too, Marvin Grillio and Coach Moe and Mr. Lingar, many others. And for me, it was it was the intangible stuff. It wasn't, it was the, you know, the class academic rigor is high and top-notch. And for me, a lot of the deeply influential aspects of my experience as a student were seeing the ways my faculty lived, worked together, and then immersed themselves in like aspects of the school that were not just in the classroom, too. That meant a lot to me and influenced my desire to be a teacher, too.
SPEAKER_02:Mine was a little different. I was very good friends with, and I still am good friends with Scott Hendrickson, who is the interim president out at Regis University right now. And we used to spend a lot of time together when I was in college. And after I graduated, I was slated to do the Peace Corps for two years. And every week he'd kind of plant the seed of, oh, have you thought about teaching at rockers? Have you thought about teaching at rockers? And I was like, I don't, I maybe someday, but like I really kind of want to go do this Peace Corps thing. And over time he kind of kept poking at it. And uh, I kind of had delayed my departure date for that. And so I reached out to Mr. Hagadorn, who recently passed last year, a good friend of mine who I kept in touch with during college, and he very, very quickly reached back out and said, Hey, we've got a we've got an opening in in theology, which was not my background area to start. I the plan kind of was for me to come in and teach English after a year, teach theology kind of in the interim. And as it turned out, I really liked theology. I had a minor in it to begin with, and then I ended up going on into advanced studies, but I've been doing that ever since. So it's kind of how I ended up here.
SPEAKER_00:I think that's really interesting. All three of you, you know, mentioned Andy Hagadorn, who passed away, like you said, last year. One of the things that I I was really marveled at being here in my first couple of years was watching Andy sit outside our office in the Pesci Auditorium or Atrium, sorry, atrium, sitting there. And I the first couple of times I just kind of noticed that he was sitting there. And then I started to notice that his alumni, so the people that he had taught, would come during their work day, maybe their lunch break, and come and sit with them and chat or go for a walk kind of around that the second floor and chat. And to me, that is the example of the type of educator I want to be, you know, where I feel like I'm contributing enough to young people's life that they feel compelled to keep me in it. And I that's been a really great thing about working at Rockhurst, I'll say, is I've gotten to see some of my kindergartners graduate from high school, which is not a lot of teachers can say that, you know, just kind of a cool thing. Okay, so our first four or these four episodes center around faith and formation specifically at Rockhurst. So, as you guys think in the context of what you do for a living teaching theology, I think some people would say there's an obvious connection there, right? That faith and theology go hand in hand. But when you think about faith formation and the theology department specifically, what does that that process mean to you? What what do you think in our curriculum and our the way that we conduct our studies in theology kind of leads to that formation, that deepening of faith with our students?
SPEAKER_03:There's a lot to be said about that question. It's a deep one. I think so, specifically in the theology department where the like the academic coursework that we're talking about is largely like Catholic theology or or an offshoot of it philosophically or scripturally or linguistically, what have you. I think the the word formation is critical because we know we have a lot of students, the most of our students are of a Catholic background. And in the in the high school context, we get to deep and or take a greater deep dive into the truths of the faith on an intellectual level, which is a great gift. And we have a huge, you know, immense history of intellectual depth in in the history of the Catholic Church, you know, pursuing answers to big questions about existence and God and morality and afterlife and human relationships and meaning and justice, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And we get to we get to to take a deeper look into those things, you know, at the high school level for students who already come from a Catholic background. And that's a great gift, I think, to those guys and to the community. And then the formation side, I think, applies to both those students who are Catholic and those who are not, where or in in a special way in that, you know, there's a lot that someone who's not Catholic can learn from the truths of the Catholic faith too, and it's of what it takes in an academic sense to study these things. So like what the Catholic Church has to say about moral practices and the sacraments and about human history and human relationships, there's a lot to offer. And so number one, the content itself speaks with great depth about important questions. And then I think it just you have to train your mind to study these things in a different way if you want to actually do it. Um like for example, when I taught freshmen who were just coming into Rockers taking a deeper, more a academic, intellectual look at the Catholic faith can be kind of a it can bu kind of be something that takes a sec to get used to. So there's in the formation side, there's a there's a richness in learning how to train your mind to seek answers to questions bigger than your own existence. And that goes for yeah, all all levels of the theology department, I think.
SPEAKER_01:Can I throw in a big word here? Cruciformity, which is just basically being made into the the form of of of the cross of of Christ. And uh for me, I mean I I kind of go back to this this phrase that was taught to me, which is you can't know what to do until you know who you are. And as Christians, you know, if we're if we're trying to act like Christ, we have to know who Christ is. So the formation piece for for me goes back to knowing who Christ is. Right? If we're trying to act like him and walk like him to be Christians, the reason we teach what we teach is because we want to end up acting like him. Um and that goes with Christians and Catholics alike, you know? Um just trying to model ourselves after him because we believe that he he saved us and and he is God. So yeah, I think how we form people should be based on our faith. And sometimes that gets lost. I feel like in translation here at Rockhurst, where we're all about brotherhood and service and leadership. And the reason we do that things is because we're looking towards the form of Christ. So that that's always an easy bread and butter for me to come back to of why we form boys the way we do, is because we believe what we do believe.
SPEAKER_02:I agree with both of both of you on that. I think we've grown a lot as a theology department in my time here. I think we've moved away from theology just as a bunch of answers to the what and a lot more depth on the why. And I think that with that, I think John kind of was talking about this, there's been like greater intellectual rigor. It's like there's greater accountability on no, you guys need to be able to really think through these deeper existential questions. You need to start to, you know, wrestle with them and open them up and see them at play in your own life. And I think that's where you then get back to like knowing Christ in the process. It's like, how do you open get these young men to ask these questions, to like to guide them down the right path, but also get them to have like an intimate relationship with Christ along the way. And and I and I think that in the process, we we've done a really good job of meeting the students where they are. I think the reality is we've got about 70% are Catholics at Rockers, and about 30% are not. And then there are a number of Catholics here that are are that maybe come from families that are not practicing as practicing as much, and some that are regularly practicing. And I think what I at least try to accomplish in my classroom is letting them all know that there's that every kid is in the same spot with asking these questions and every kid searching for answers. And it doesn't matter if they were here in this country or if they were in India, you're still existential questions are are there's no boundary to them. And so if you can start getting them to see that there were this like one big brotherhood, they're bordered with this one big community, and that we're all try, we're all kind of wrestling with these things together, then I think you can get them excited to explore those a little bit on a deeper level and really be open to coming in contact with Christ.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think you you all really nailed it. And one of the things that you said, Luke, is something that I often have conversations with families who either maybe aren't from the Catholic faith, don't have a Catholic faith background, maybe they even have some aversion to the faith in that application admissions process. And one of the things I always uh go back to is the formation piece, right? Everybody can benefit from that. It doesn't matter where you're coming from. I also think the idea of learning to have constructive dialogue, to be able to talk with people who have different values, that maybe have different viewpoints, it's really important. And it's not necessarily a skill that's taught in other classrooms necessarily. And I think that that's the unique aspect of having theology be a part of our core classes here is that it teaches students to ask deeper questions, to listen better. That's one thing that I've really enjoyed about Ignatian spirituality is this idea of being an active listener and and hearing people, not just listening, you know, really hearing people and then responding. I think that's a really important quality that that gets brought out in not only the theology department, clearly, but also in our pastoral department, in our retreat programs, in our service environment. I think there's just a lot of great formation that happens there. Okay. So for the people that are not familiar with theology, the theology department at Rockurst, can you kind of walk me through the four years of theology at Rockhurst?
SPEAKER_01:I think that the person who's been teaching here the longest should have to do that.
SPEAKER_02:The first year now we've switched to scripture. And so we're really getting into sacred scripture as the boys begin high school. The next year we get into sacred traditions. So it's a little bit more look exploring what the Catholic faith is, the sacraments, and understanding kind of some of the history of the church. Junior year shifts. We get a little, we we start to look at not just theology, but philosophy. So the first semester, every one of the boys is looking at, is taking a morality and an ethics course, where I think we do a really great job of getting them to start to understand why we believe things are morally appropriate or not. And then the second semester, they have kind of their first option to kind of go one of two different directions. And one would be our ecclesiology and world religions class, which looks both at kind of the formation of Christianity and looking at Christian history, so that you, you know, you'll you'll look at not just the Catholic faith, you might look at Protestant Protestantism or the Orthodox faiths, denominations, alongside the other world religions. And then the other course, which Mr. Fetter's teaching next semester, would be the apologetics, the faith and reason class, which is again really looking at the arguments for our faith and and answering some of these big these big questions that that are asked of Catholics. Um then senior year is Catholic faith and practice. That first semester course really is social justice. And then the second semester is is again faith and practice, but it's it's a vocation course. So a lot of that course is spent on looking at married and family life because most of the boys will likely end up married with a family, but some will be called to to holy orders, some might be called to single life. And I think we explore all the different callings God has for us and what that really will look like as they head out into the world.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And I really like the uh the flow of our theology classes, kind of going from uh theology to philosophy to mor to morality to ethics, kind of building on itself. And then your senior year, I mean, the idea is that you've not mastered those things, you know, but you have the foundation to start making your own decisions about life on your own, your own vocation, and then also living in community or in a society with other people. So I I'm also really impressed with the textbooks that we've had. Last year I got the chance to teach a little bit of the junior class, and I was just blown away by how great the textbook we have is, and I don't know how locked up it is with the Catholic faith and Christian faith as well, but it just they just make sense. The textbooks make sense. So I'm happy to be using those books. And obviously the textbook for the scripture class is the Bible. So that's a good one to have.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, we've put a lot of intentionality into forming and adjusting and placing where where makes the most sense, placing those classes in sequence. And there's been some kind of robust revisions done over the past like 10 years to that curriculum that I think have really benefited students a lot and it made a lot of sense. And I would add too that one of the things I think we do a really great job of at Rockhurst is collaborating our theology curriculum with what is happening in the service side of the school and what's happening in the pastoral and retreat and liturgy side of the school. I think that's something that we uh kind of, you know, for the for the well-being and benefit of the formation of the students. I think we do that really good job with that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And as a pastoral minister, I can attest to that it's it's good to collaborate and it's also good to recognize like the identity of the theology department is mostly academic and curricular, and then the pastoral department is, you know, for retreats and and daily prayer life and that kind of stuff. And it's it's good to let each department do its own thing and also collaborate at the same time. And I think we do a good job of respecting each other's departments.
SPEAKER_00:So Yeah, I think too you guys touched on it, but one thing that I think David Laughlin actually said it in our opening kind of teacher professional development, the idea that rockers never change, but it evolves. And I think that that's exactly what I've seen in the theology department, even in the seven years I've been here, is this very intentional look at what we teach, when we teach it, and how it benefits our students in their overall life. And so, you know, I th I think you guys should be commended for that. And in a lot of our departments should be commended for that because I've seen revisions in in every department over the time and really looking at how is our curriculum serving our students, not vice versa.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, if I could add to that, I'm I've really enjoyed thinking about the analogy of a ship. Rockers is a ship that, you know, maybe has different captains from time to time, and maybe gets washed every once in a while, or it gets renovations here and there. But for the most part, like the ship is made up of very similar parts. I know that I've been hearing more and more stories about how Rockhurst was back in the day, and it's definitely different than it was in some regards. I feel like there's a lot of similarities in the culture, but I think that yeah, the the analogy of a ship that's hopefully going in the right direction and getting updates here and there every once in a while, but with different captains, it's a good analogy.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Why is the this idea of faith formation so essential to the Rockers experience as both an aluminum and a teacher? Why do you think that that is such an important component of what we do here at Rockers?
SPEAKER_01:You skipped the best question.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, I skipped the best question.
SPEAKER_01:What's your favorite favorite memory in class?
SPEAKER_00:I mean, you're you're giving the behind the scenes. I was gonna say, and also you're you're giving the behind the scenes. We act like you guys just know this stuff. Now I'm just kidding. We'll we'll come back to that. I think we'll end on that.
SPEAKER_02:I I can kind of jump in for the faith formation, why it's so essential. I I think when I I've got a son that's in seventh grade, he'll be here in a couple of years. And and I think about all the things that at times in my life as an adult where I've found myself anchored in the wrong things, where I've found myself chasing, you know, the the the next position or make a little bit more money or do these things. And I think it's really easy to wake up and find yourself in your 40s and realize you were trying to find meaning in the wrong things. I think we all do it at times, that's our sinfulness. But I think what Rockhurst is, is it reminds us that our relationship with God is the most important thing. At the end of the day, that's where true fulfillment comes from. That's that's what we're called to. I I remember uh Dave Alvey, who taught here for 27 years, I want to say something like that, and was mayor of Kansas City, Kansas. Dave said one time to the faculty, we're here to save souls. And I think at the end of the day, that's true. We're here to point the kids to absolute goodness, and that goodness is God. And if, and if to me, knowing my son will have that experience in this community and that everything we do, whether you're playing on the football field, whether you're playing, you know, you're out playing soccer or you're running cross-country or you're doing theater or speech and debate or robotics, all of that is anchored in that same vision and that same understanding of uh of why we're here. And so for me, I I can't imagine a place I'd rather have my son, or any other young man for that matter.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and if I could speak to that, like I feel like we've found more ways to show that we are anchored in Christ over the last 25 or 30 years. If you if you talk to somebody who only knew Rockers in the 90s, they're like, oh yeah, you can find God in in sports, and maybe the academics as well. But you know, at least when I came here and over the last 25 years, I feel like now we're anchoring, you know, the arts to Christ, and we're anchoring STEM to Christ, or we're anchoring, you know, all sorts of different things, clubs and activities, like the outdoors club to Christ. And so I think Rockhurst, the way it has changed over the last 30 years is you're finding more ways to find God in all things. So I'm proud of our school for doing that.
SPEAKER_03:I'd agree. I think when it comes to like the importance of faith formation across the Rockhurst experience, and like speaking again in the collaboration between theology and service and pastoral and even other academic departments and co-curriculars, like one of the things we talk about in in my classes a lot is that all human beings are fundamentally religious because one of the things that makes us human is that we like I think I said earlier, we ask questions bigger than our own existence about like the origin of man and what happens after I die, and does my life have meaning, and why should I act a certain way versus a different way? And even the guy who you know is super anti-religion and you know is an atheist still addresses those questions, even if he says the answer is no, there's no meaning and God doesn't exist, and yada yada.
SPEAKER_02:If Pope Benedict says even an atheist is pointing the same direction. If you're searching for truth, you can't be looking any other direction but God.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So we're, you know, offering, you know, formative opportunities in a formative time of life, you know, between freshman and senior years of high school, you know, those formative opportunities intellectually, academically, collaboratively, relationally, co-curricularly, for students to to kind of wrestle with those questions and not only to engage with them now in high school, but to have something to fall back on later when those questions continue to come up, because they will and they do.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's great. I'll probably be the least popular person with Stefan Charbonneau, the head of the theology department here in a minute. But if you look to, I mean, you guys have done a lot of work in the department looking at classes over the last couple of years. What would you pick as your dream class? Like if you could add a class to our theology department. And maybe it already exists, maybe it's something we're already teaching. What would be that class?
SPEAKER_02:I love the ethics class that we teach right now. I would that's what I would teach if I I mean.
SPEAKER_01:I think I we're all really personally educated classes. I can't think of exactly what I'm teaching. This comes up a lot in the department. We're like, we should add something, and then everyone's like, ah, but I really love the class and I already teach. So it's hard. I mean, you could I had this as a note, but like you could teach so much about the faith, and that's kind of the overwhelming thing, is it's hard to know where to begin and where to end because it's all connected and it all points towards Christ. And it's just really hard to pick things to teach because you know, as theology nerds, we all love so many different things. Be like, do I really want to sacrifice one thing for the other thing? So it's hard.
SPEAKER_03:I'm I'm sure we could all come up with ideas, but we would we all have different things we go down, like personal rabbit holes on. Yes. I could think of five classes.
SPEAKER_02:I love I love eschatology. I I don't know if eschatology really is.
SPEAKER_01:The book of Academy, like as yes, we need the book of Echabides as a place of rockers. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I like to go down like the that's a bold take, the Jesuit justice road of like, man, there's so many ways to apply the virtue of justice and like environmentally and economically. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Scripture would be really fun to like deep dive in tangents about whatever anyway. I could yeah, just ranting about.
SPEAKER_00:So I I'm hearing that was our our bell here, and these guys I I have to say are full-time teachers, they're full-time moderators, they've got a very full schedule. So we didn't get to your favorite question, Ryan, but maybe I'll have to have you guys back on to talk about your favorite class memories here at some point.
SPEAKER_01:But I can just say too, yeah. From my time here at Rockhurst, yeah, cutting chicken sandwiches in half in class, and probably going to Nicaragua with Marvin Grillo. And from my time teaching here at Rockhurst, I would say going on Kairos retreats with my co-workers, driving around in the car, watching the boys run on board parkway and coaching them, and just spending time with my co-workers, morning mass here at the chapel every day. Uh, those are the things that when I look back, after having taught here for many, many years, I will look back very fondly at.
SPEAKER_02:I had a student duct tape a cell phone to his thigh back when they weren't supposed to have cell phones on their person. And that's a story unto itself for another day, but that's maybe one of my favorite memories. Yes, that's a highlight. A lot of antics, but a lot.
SPEAKER_00:Mr. Federer, well, go grab yours in. One one last note.
SPEAKER_03:I think I my favorite, my favorite in-class moments are when guys recognize like how practical the truths of the faith actually are, and like how practical the teachings of Jesus really are. He was a very practical dude. And we think about it like very theoretically on like pie in the sky sometimes, like to take the intellectual and really apply it in the here and now. I think seeing guys like recognize, like, oh, this really applies to my life, and uh, I can I can relate to this in specific ways. And my favorite way to like make sure that we can relate is in the realm of Kansas City barbecue. So I talk about barbecue an immense amount in my class. It's just the most carnal example.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, especially the Z-Man sandwich.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so you know, if there's any reps from Joe's out there, I'm open for endorsement. You'd think no, that's all you talk about. There are no fewer than 14 photos of Z-Man sandwiches in Brahma. How are you not endorsed?
SPEAKER_02:I think I put one up on your desk. You did, yeah. I think I did. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I think I think this is a call out to them to endorse Mr. Fetters. Me up. I mean, tying theology to barbecue, that's a difficult task.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, it's easy. We just we used to have Chick-fil-A for lunch, like every other Thursday. That was a lot of fun. Goes.
SPEAKER_00:There you go.
SPEAKER_03:I'd advocate for that.
SPEAKER_00:There you go. All right, guys. Thank you again for taking time to speak with us today. I know you guys are very busy. We really appreciate it. For our next round, we are going to be talking to more folks just like you, actually. We're going to be looking at kind of the generations and traditions that have formed the school over the last, you know, hundred plus years. We're going to look at multi-generational families, first generational families, families that have given a tremendous amount to the school. So I'm really kind of looking forward to spending our next four episodes really focusing on the people that have kind of built this place and and made it the place it is, like the Andy Hagadorns of the world. And so thank you again for being here today. This is Rock Talk, and we will see you next week.